Held remotely using Google Meet on 29th September 2021.
The previous meeting notes from 30th July 2021 held on Google Meet.
No scheme updates supplied.
Council supplied an initial draft agenda as:
- List of planned works for LIP 22/23 (basically this year’s list as lack of funding to do it this year)
- What would SCF like to appear on the LIP schemes list for the following 2 years, including bus and cycle-specific schemes? Discussion of the data from TfL and what it’s telling us e.g. the possible need for a Mitcham to Hackbridge cycle route?
- Process and timelines for consultation of Neighbourhood Placemaking inc interactive map – Danny Luu to lead. SCF keen on follow up meeting to focus on the detail at end of October?
- Moped problem and barriers to stop them – we propose an on site meeting at Watercress Park with some non-standard cycles to discuss the issues
We seem to have veered from the original intent of “to discuss the consultations for Butter Hill and Worcester Park” which LCC members are intending to discuss this evening ahead of tomorrow. I’ve been asked to chair this tomorrow, so I would also like to push conversation back along lines of TfL funding: more works/consultations (another round of school streets if no cycle infra, following discussions around 6 month funding cycle) rather than LIP, then the LTNs: proposed timelines, what’s been done, what needs to be done, are there blockers? what actions next.
Replied 28th Sept, Marcus
Key points:
Consultations
- Worcester Park and Butter Hill consultations are delayed until mid-October LBS will be asking residents what they consider the issues to be.
- MH asked whether sufficient consultation is being carried out and again referred attendees to the LCC / Urban Movement engagement guide
- Councillor Abellan advised that the focus will be ”what type of area do residents wish to live in?” and responses will shape the proposals for these schemes. e.g. green infrastructure, EV charging points, what will neighbourhoods require in order to meet Climate Change obligations. Process is robust and will take time to speak to residents and emerge with positive proposals proposals.
- MH would like to see more structure e.g has LBS spoken to schools, businesses etc? pointing to recent good examples:
Taking averages of the years 2015 to 2020 to mitigate the effect of small sample sizes only 3.1% people cycle at least 3 times a week in Sutton which compares poorly with 7.0% in London as a whole and 8.4% per cent in neighbouring Kingston.
Dominic Hewlett (Get Sutton Cycling)
Traffic and Cycle counters / IoT from Vivacity
- HM updated SCF on this scheme
- The contact to gain access to the Vivacity dashboard for more data was shared.
- The offer of accounts was made to help gather relevant data.
- This did happen on 1st December 2021, a demo of the Vivacity dashboard was given and accounts created.
Update on LIP schemes and more on funding
- None of schemes can be progressed for the LIP schemes because TfL have frozen schemes
- As staff costs are being funded then the schemes are being designed but the works can’t go ahead until TfL releases funds.
- LR asks MH to focus on specific areas where SCF feels where cycle numbers can be increased e.g. not Carshalton & Clockhouse which are close to the Surrey borders and are hilly but to focus on routes which would give the most likely increases in cycling numbers e.g. into Sutton Town Centre or other popular destinations.
- Feedback: Marcus recommends riding priority routes and revisiting our asks of 2014.
- Councillor Abellan advised that TfL will not give LBS any more funding until the FY 22/23.
- LBS has been asked to prepare a 3 year LIP however we don’t yet know what TfL’s funding proposals will be. LBS continues to lobby TfL and Will Norman specifically for funding for cycle infrastructure.
- LBS is paying for the 10 School Streets themselves rather than waiting for TfL to agree to fund.
- Councillor Abellan requests that SCF work to helping them to prioritise which scheme to bid for.
- Ian Price & Ian Baker recently met Simon Munk (London Cycle Campaign) to discuss the best way to approach TfL for money.
- TfL want to fund good schemes that have been consulted on. Though Sutton currently frozen due to
- MH asked whether more School Streets are planned which would lead to funding?
- Councillor Jenny Batt advised that congestion is an issue for School Streets. She hopes that the current schemes will encourage more schools to request School Streets and may attract more parents to send their children to schools which have them.
- MH asked what LBS has already asked schools?
- Cllr Batt advises that not all schools want to engage on this.
- MH suggested engaging with parents: surveys or at school gates?
- Cllr would like to use the 10 new school streets as case studies to generate data which can be used to start conversations with other schools to get them involved and have a rolling programme of schools.
- MH asked what data was being collected?
- Danny Luu advises that traffic volume and Air Quality data is being collected on around School Street schemes.
Hackbridge
- Currently the only scheme at Hackbridge is the junction improvement Goat Rd/London Rd.
- Mitcham to Wallington cycle route is identified by TfL at initial/feasibility stage but is not currently funded to progress.
- LBS has to decide whether to pursue when TfL starts to provide funding for new routes.
- Lynn Robinson asked the Sutton Cycle Forum whether this should be a focus or should LBS remain committed to the 2 routes that Lynn is currently working on?
- Feedback: that Mitcham – Hackbridge and on to Carshalton is currently a leisure trail. If we are looking at a commuter route then commuters will want to cycle directly along the London Road, this needs upgrading and gaps addressed.
- Also route signage/improving signage would be a quick win e.g. near Nonsuch Park.
- Councillor Batt cited example of Nonsuch Park where at the side entrance it is not possible to take a cycle trailer through bollard.
- The parks committee has been asked to remove it to enable non-standard cycles to use this route when the main park gates are closed.
- Other members commented that these tend to be on-going debates so that bollards/barriers are installed/removed regularly.
Moped issue on Wandle Trail and barriers to stop them
- K barrier on Wandle Trail at Watermead Lane. Residents are asking for barriers on the route and some Councillors are supporting this in preference to allowing adapted cycles to move freely along the route.
- General consensus that barriers are ineffective and don’t stop mopeds using the route and we do not support their installation.
- LR would like to arrange for adapted cycles to attend site and show the problems that would be caused by the standard barrier.
- JK states that it is independent cyclists on adapted cycles cannot get through the barriers unaided. Person who did complain to LBS was advised that there is an alternative route (uphill on a busy road).
- There is also an issue on Roundshaw Downs.
- Councillor Manuel Abellan: “we have a severe moped problem on Roundshaw and I’m afraid it’s a lot more complicated.” Manuel then excused himself as he had another call.
- Councillor Jenny Batt: ask the police how many calls they have had about mopeds in the last year.
- LR/Ian Baker and HM attending problem solving session with Police on 6th October 2021
- Action was to have a site meeting there before this.
- This did happen on the 5th October 2021, Helen Miller, Ian Baker, Lynn Robinson, Eric Chasseray (Kingston) met and although Marcus Howarth was able to get his cargo bike through measurements were taken (68cm wide at squeeze plates 86cm high) and it was confirmed mopeds would not be stopped but recumbant trikes would be unable to pass.
Just before the end of the call Councillor Jenny Batt asked what groups where involved and what the goals of the Cycle Forum were.
Date for the next forum meeting – 17th November 2021 at 10am.
Get Sutton Cycling 
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